Ahead of WrestleMania, the wrestling legend discusses Cena’s quest for a 17th world title, WWE’s relationship with TNA and his favourite current superstars.
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What was your reaction to John Cena’s heel turn?
All I saw was kids crying! When John turned heel, seeing the reaction in the crowd, I was just like “whoa, I don’t know if they did the right thing!”. But it’s brilliant, because when you’re a huge babyface and you make that big heel turn, when you turn back babyface, you become even bigger than you were before. I think that was the psychology they were going to use.
I think Cena will retire as a baby face, but they wanted to put that heel turn in so that he could earn the fans back to be babyface again. I think it’s going to be huge when he does it, and he’ll retire the biggest babyface of all time, up there with Hulk Hogan and Stone Cold Steve Austin.
Is a 17th world championship for Cena best for business?
John Cena has consistently been in this business for over 20 years and hardly ever got injured. I’m not going to say he’s the greatest athlete of all time, but his in-ring work skills are incredible. He’s an incredible promo cutter and he’s stuck with the WWE for over 20 years, and he won 16 World Heavyweight titles. I believe he’s the greatest WWE superstar of all time.
And he does deserve that 17th world title because that will set him apart from anybody else. Ric Flair has 16, Triple H has 15. But John Cena? I believe he deserves that 17th.
We all remember Cena’s debut against you – at that time, what did you think of his potential?
The kid looked incredible. I think his name was The Prototype at the time. I didn’t even know his name was John Cena, and we had a really good match, for him being relatively new in the business. I knew the kid had a lot of ability. I didn’t know where he was going to be on the card because I didn’t know if he could talk. He seemed to have a lot of charisma, so I knew that was covered. But having a great match with me isn’t that hard to do. Having a great match with somebody that’s not as skilled, that’s more difficult.
But Cena proved a lot to me that night and I knew that if he had some kind of niche that he could hang on to, he would be a huge name in the business. And that’s when he came up with the rap gimmick. That really set him apart, and that that was the extra oomph he needed to become a huge superstar.
I remember he was joking around one day rapping on the aeroplane when we were travelling somewhere and Stephanie McMahon heard him. She went home and told her dad, and Vince [McMahon] was like “John, you can rap?” He said, “yeah, I can rap!” So John started rapping for Vince, and Vince said “you’re going to do this from now on.”
That’s how John Cena came up with his character and it worked extremely well. John Cena’s come up with the best raps ever. He’s so witty and he comes up with his own material, which is incredible. John has made a huge impact on this business, and he will forever be known as the greatest of all time.
Would you have liked to Cena to have been your retirement match?
I actually picked John to be my retirement match. Vince McMahon wouldn’t have it. He said “you’ve got a programme with Baron Corbin and we want to finish it,” and I understand why. I mean, in 2006 I left the WWE high and dry. I went to TNA, and I didn’t tell Vince I was going. It was a secret, and when I went to TNA for 11 years and I came back, it wasn’t “Oh, welcome back!” It was “you’re going to have to pay the price. I’m going to stick it to you a little bit.”
And I get it. I didn’t have the huge retirement story John Cena had because I left WWE for 11 years. I had to pay the price and I’m OK with that. I didn’t mind retiring with Baron Corbin, but I would have loved to have retired with John Cena. His first match with me and him being my last match – I thought that would go really well.
Vince said “if you want to wrestle another year, I will give it to you next year.” The problem was I could see myself looking older and older in the ring. I didn’t want the fans to remember me as this older guy that’s not in his prime anymore, and I didn’t like what I saw, so I decided to retire with Baron Corbin. So that was my choice.
I didn’t mind doing it with Baron. Baron’s a great kid and he’s a great talent. But I would have loved to have John Cena definitely.
Although you initially wanted John Cena, do you feel retirement matches are for putting people over, like your match against Baron Corbin at WrestleMania 35?
Yes, I was happy to put Baron over, but I wish they would have done more with him. When you beat a legend like me or any other legend, that is giving them the go ahead to push this kid really hard. And they did start to, and then he won the King of the Ring and then they kind of dropped the ball with him. And it didn’t matter to me, I felt badly for Baron because they gave him all this hope and they really didn’t do anything with it. They had him beat Kurt Angle and he goes wins King of the Ring and looks like he’s going to start having a big future, and they just kind of shut it down.
I feel badly for Baron. I don’t feel badly for me. I feel badly for him. I think they could have done a lot more with him. He’s the real deal.
Do you feel CM Punk vs Roman Reigns vs Seth Rollins being the main event for night one of WrestleMania lessens the importance of Jey Uso winning the Royal Rumble, and his championship match vs Gunther?
It doesn’t sit well with me. I think [Jey Uso and Gunther] deserve to be the main event. That’s the way it’s always been. That’s what history says. And for them to have the World Heavyweight title match and not be the main event – it’s kind of a kick to the balls.
Don’t get me wrong, Roman Reigns, Seth Rollins, CM Punk – they’re headliners. I understand why they did that. But history tells us that main events are for the world title match, so I believe that should be Gunther and Jey Uso. And if you do that, you’re sending a message to the fans that these guys are your next upcoming superstars. These guys are going to be as big as Roman Reigns, Seth Rollins and CM Punk.
Now they’re sending a message: “Hey, it’s not as important to win the world title match, because if you have Roman Reigns, Seth Rollins and CM Punk in a match, you’ve got to make that the main event because they’re the biggest names.” It doesn’t sit well with me. I think they should have the world title match as the main event.
Which match are you looking forward to the most and which match do you think will steal the show?
Jey’s an incredible athlete, Gunther’s one of the best workers in the business today. If they have incredible chemistry, they’re going to have a knock-down, drag-out match, but the triple threat with Roman Reigns, Seth Rollins and CM Punk is going to be a really good one. Also, John Cena and Cody Rhodes – that match is going to be for the books. So those three matches in general. I don’t know which one’s going to be better, but they’re all going to be incredible matches.
How do you think the match between Cena and Cody Rhodes ends?
Knowing that his contract runs out in December, I believe Cena’s last match will be in December, which is kind of odd. Usually, you retire at WrestleMania. I don’t know how true that is, but this is my pick – and don’t count on it happening – but I would see John Cena losing at WrestleMania to give Cody Rhodes more credibility, and then they’ll have the rematch at SummerSlam. I think Cena will take it from Cody there, have a little bit of a run, then he’ll turn babyface and then he’ll give the title either back to Cody or somebody else.
What led you to join TNA back in 2006?
I had a painkiller problem and I was getting injured quite a bit, and the WWE wasn’t really giving me time to heal.
I felt like I had to get out to save my own ass, and so I went to TNA and it was the best move for me because I had a reduced schedule. I got to work a lot less days and I still got paid handsomely. It was an incredible contract, thank the good Lord. So I did enjoy going to TNA.
I will say it was a bit humbling because there are some places where we would go and there would only be a few hundred people. Don’t get me wrong, we had some sold out shows and we did really well when I was there. We had an incredible run and we were doing over two million views a week on Spike TV, so we were really doing well in the ratings.
But there was a huge difference between being in a mega company like WWE and then a tiny company like TNA. TNA had a great run, and we had a lot of talent that came in – Ric Flair and Kevin Nash, Jeff Jarrett, myself, AJ Styles, Samoa Joe, it went on forever. A lot of talent were following me from WWE.
I really loved the way we were able to make some noise, but I knew that eventually, I was going to go back to WWE to retire. I just didn’t realise that when I got back there, it wasn’t going to be what I expected it to be – kind of like a “thank you, Kurt” send off. It was more like “F- you, Kurt!” But I’m OK with it. I enjoyed my career. I knew that was going to happen, because I wanted to go back and finish where I started, and I felt I owed it to the WWE fans. I could have retired in TNA easily, but I want to do that for the fans.
I got less in my last year in WWE than I did in TNA, so it wasn’t like I was going back for the money. A lot of people thought that it was for the money, but I went back for the fans.
Having joined a rival promotion yourself, what makes AEW attractive to current wrestlers over the WWE?
It’s an established company and they have money – that’s the important thing – and Tony Khan has done an incredible job of starting that company. I know right now they’re struggling a little bit with attendance, but they’re still doing pretty good. I think it has to do with money. If TNA had the money that AEW had, I think TNA would have been even bigger.
Knowing Tony Khan, he’s able to pay these athletes. It gives these wrestlers different opportunities. They have other places to choose from, so they could say, “let me see what WWE can offer me and then let me see what AEW can offer me.” You have more choices than just WWE, and AEW is definitely WWE’s biggest competitor right now.
AEW made a lot of noise the last few years and I know it’s not as big as WWE – it probably never will be – but it’s still big enough that it’s making noise. I think that’s the WWE’s biggest nemesis now.
What are your thoughts on the NXT-TNA partnership and the opportunity for wrestlers to crossover into the WWE?
WWE joining forces with TNA was brilliant, because now they have a lot of talent they can choose from. Working the TNA boys and girls into the WWE and NXT, and then NXT into TNA, that’s really cool. I would imagine eventually, they’re going to buy TNA. I don’t see any other way. They’re going to probably want the library, and I want them to because I had my best matches in TNA. For those to be in the WWE library, that’s super important. That would be incredible for people like me who are retired, so that people can see what Kurt Angle did throughout his career.
Who was the best wrestler you worked with during your career?
Chris Benoit, by far. Chris was the best in-ring performer I’ve ever been in the ring with. I’d put Eddie Guerrero up there too, and Shawn Michaels. But Chris Benoit, the chemistry him and I had was nothing short of amazing. I felt like I was wrestling my twin, and we had some amazing matches.
Especially the match I had with him at the Royal Rumble 2003. It was for the WWE title, and I was just watching it over again, I’m like, “this is magic.” I didn’t realise it was that good, the night I did it. I thought it was the best match I ever wrestled. Either that or Shawn Michaels at WrestleMania 21, but the only reason I picked that is because it’s WrestleMania. But Chris Benoit, Royal Rumble 2003, that was my best match.
Who do you think is currently the best on the mic?
Today, the best on the mic would be CM Punk or John Cena. I think both carry their own weight and they’re incredible performers, and especially on the microphone they both are very savvy.
Who would you say is the best worker in the WWE?
I love that Gunther kid. He is an incredible technician. An in-ring general.
I love his European style of wrestling. I’ve always loved the European style because it has a lot of great technique. I like Gunther. I think he’s the best technician right now, and the best in-ring worker.
Who’s the best up and coming talent you’ve seen?
Gunther or Bron Breakker. That kid is an incredible athlete.
He is his uncle and his dad multiplied by five. He is super. The Steiners were incredible athletes, but this kid is a mega athlete. He’s actually a little bit better of an athlete than his dad or his uncle, and I hate saying that because the Steiners were amazing athletes. They were great wrestlers in college and but Bron Breakker – what a mega athlete. He’s just incredible in the ring.
Who is the most underrated wrestler you’ve seen in your career?
I would say Jey Uso. You’re talking about a Royal Rumble champion, not main-eventing WrestleMania – that’s being underrated. The kid’s got a huge future. He’s going to be a world champion. I feel like they should give him that main event spot this year, and because they’re not, I consider him the most underrated wrestler right now.
What can we expect from Kurt Angle in the near future?
I’m always open. AEW came to me and I decided not to do it. They wanted me to wrestle, and I can’t really do that. But I would consider coming back. WWE has me back every once in a while for little things like cutting a promo on someone or celebrating my birthday, or they had me show up to the Royal Rumble with my daughter.
A rumour was coming out saying, “why not have Kurt Angle manage Chad Gable?” That’s something I would consider doing. They never approached me, and it’s OK if they don’t. I’m cool with it. I don’t really need to go on TV anymore, but I would consider it. I would leave the option open.
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